Show whole topic
Mar 21, 2010 11:29 pm
Mar 21, 2010 11:29 pm
Subject: Re: 16/80 Body
Hi Folks
I need to elaborate on Hans’ comments. Many 16/80s did not have T7 bodies.
When the 16/80 tourers came out it was contemporaneous with the last of the low chassis 2 Litres, which were called the ‘Continental’. These were the first speed model Lagonda to have a fully panelled, as opposed to a fabric body, though earlier examples were always available to special order. The ‘Continental’ 2 Litre had a body designated “T4” and had some special characteristics. For the 16/80 and 3 Litre, by 1932, fabric bodies were going out of fashion so they introduced the “T5” body, essentially a fully panelled T2 body, which had first appeared in late 1930 on low chassis two litres.
For the 1933 model year the bathtub rear and was going out of fashion and Vanden Plas were commissioned in December 1932 to produce design number 1893 on a 16/80 chassis for the Scottish motor show. This car belongs to a friend of mine. It must have spurred Lagonda to produce their own swept tail body which was designated T6, still with the three doors of the T5 body. In late 1933 – presumably for the motor show, they created the “T7” body which had one large door on the nearside and a small door on the offside for rear seat passengers. This body also appeared on 3 litre and M45 cars. Actually, if one sees a T7 bodied 16/80 on its own, one can be fooled into thinking it is an M45, unless there is one standing alongside. In 1934 16/80s were selling well and so many carry this body style. The next development was the T8 body, broadly the same as T7 but with just two doors, one on each side. This was the first Lagonda tourer to have a door on the driver’s side and was current right up to bankruptcy in 1935.
As the low chassis (LC) 2 Litre model had been phased out by the time the T7 body came out, these bodies were never fitted as original. However the exception can prove the rule and perhaps somewhere an original T7 bodied 2 Litre might appear. Actually, to be precise it would be a 16/80 with the 2 Litre engine supplied instead of the Crossley unit and some of these do exist.
As original, all T7 bodied cars had long wings, as cycle wings were going out of fashion by 1933.
Bear in mind that bodies from T1 through to T8 all have the same mountings and so speed model Lagondas can be fitted with a different body and these were swapped whether high or low chassis.
It now gets complicated. In 1929 the first low chassis 2 Litre came out with a modified T1 body. These usually have the designation “SML” – Speed Model Low (Chassis). At the same time speed model Weymann saloons continued to use the high chassis (HC) chassis. These were designated “LOH” and I had one registered March 1930 which was mostly high chassis though with a low chassis front axle and rear lowering blocks. The tell tale between HC and LC are the chassis cross members, so although a LC body will fit on an HC car, the floor will be slightly odd. 1930 cars can be quite unique.
More complications. HC and early LC 2 Litres had their radiators mounted on a cross member and when the blown 2 Litre came out, the radiator was moved forward and mounted on trunnions. This gave space for the blower and later accommodated the longer 6 cylinder engine of the 16/80. The necessitated a longer bonnet so if a T7 body is fitted to an earlier car, the bonnet must be shortened.
One car I used to own, chassis number LOH 9602, March 1930, had been originally fitted with the second series Weymann saloon body designated “W2”. However these bodies did not last very well and when I got the car it had been fitted with a T7 body of car number SWS10499 – a 16/80 from around November 1933. I was given to understand LOH 9602 received its T7 body in the 1940’s or 1950’s when owned by an RAF officer. Presumably the 16/80 had been crashed or scrapped. I disposed of the T7 body which is now on M45 chassis number Z10949, and replaced it with an original body from an HC 2 Litre chassis number SM9248.
In conclusion, the critical question is the number of the chassis and date which would then dictate the most appropriate body. A T7 body fitted to a high chassis would look most peculiar.
Hope this lot helps
Colin M34
Hi Folks
I need to elaborate on Hans’ comments. Many 16/80s did not have T7 bodies.
When the 16/80 tourers came out it was contemporaneous with the last of the low chassis 2 Litres, which were called the ‘Continental’. These were the first speed model Lagonda to have a fully panelled, as opposed to a fabric body, though earlier examples were always available to special order. The ‘Continental’ 2 Litre had a body designated “T4” and had some special characteristics. For the 16/80 and 3 Litre, by 1932, fabric bodies were going out of fashion so they introduced the “T5” body, essentially a fully panelled T2 body, which had first appeared in late 1930 on low chassis two litres.
For the 1933 model year the bathtub rear and was going out of fashion and Vanden Plas were commissioned in December 1932 to produce design number 1893 on a 16/80 chassis for the Scottish motor show. This car belongs to a friend of mine. It must have spurred Lagonda to produce their own swept tail body which was designated T6, still with the three doors of the T5 body. In late 1933 – presumably for the motor show, they created the “T7” body which had one large door on the nearside and a small door on the offside for rear seat passengers. This body also appeared on 3 litre and M45 cars. Actually, if one sees a T7 bodied 16/80 on its own, one can be fooled into thinking it is an M45, unless there is one standing alongside. In 1934 16/80s were selling well and so many carry this body style. The next development was the T8 body, broadly the same as T7 but with just two doors, one on each side. This was the first Lagonda tourer to have a door on the driver’s side and was current right up to bankruptcy in 1935.
As the low chassis (LC) 2 Litre model had been phased out by the time the T7 body came out, these bodies were never fitted as original. However the exception can prove the rule and perhaps somewhere an original T7 bodied 2 Litre might appear. Actually, to be precise it would be a 16/80 with the 2 Litre engine supplied instead of the Crossley unit and some of these do exist.
As original, all T7 bodied cars had long wings, as cycle wings were going out of fashion by 1933.
Bear in mind that bodies from T1 through to T8 all have the same mountings and so speed model Lagondas can be fitted with a different body and these were swapped whether high or low chassis.
It now gets complicated. In 1929 the first low chassis 2 Litre came out with a modified T1 body. These usually have the designation “SML” – Speed Model Low (Chassis). At the same time speed model Weymann saloons continued to use the high chassis (HC) chassis. These were designated “LOH” and I had one registered March 1930 which was mostly high chassis though with a low chassis front axle and rear lowering blocks. The tell tale between HC and LC are the chassis cross members, so although a LC body will fit on an HC car, the floor will be slightly odd. 1930 cars can be quite unique.
More complications. HC and early LC 2 Litres had their radiators mounted on a cross member and when the blown 2 Litre came out, the radiator was moved forward and mounted on trunnions. This gave space for the blower and later accommodated the longer 6 cylinder engine of the 16/80. The necessitated a longer bonnet so if a T7 body is fitted to an earlier car, the bonnet must be shortened.
One car I used to own, chassis number LOH 9602, March 1930, had been originally fitted with the second series Weymann saloon body designated “W2”. However these bodies did not last very well and when I got the car it had been fitted with a T7 body of car number SWS10499 – a 16/80 from around November 1933. I was given to understand LOH 9602 received its T7 body in the 1940’s or 1950’s when owned by an RAF officer. Presumably the 16/80 had been crashed or scrapped. I disposed of the T7 body which is now on M45 chassis number Z10949, and replaced it with an original body from an HC 2 Litre chassis number SM9248.
In conclusion, the critical question is the number of the chassis and date which would then dictate the most appropriate body. A T7 body fitted to a high chassis would look most peculiar.
Hope this lot helps
Colin M34