Lagondaforum » Other » Body » M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice

Mark	Aug 07, 2019 9:15 am
Subject: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice I need to strip down the screen frame on my M45 tourer for rechroming and glass replacement. As far as I can assess the top rail and sides do not come apart and would be rechromed as one piece. Is this correct? If so,then I have to remove the bottom curved rail to remove the glass. There are two steel screws on each side about 30mm from the base and what looks like a 'brass dowel' in each bottom corner but no slot for unscrewing this. I have drilled out the steel screws as they were heavily rusted but the frame remains solidly together! I am now considering drilling out the 'brass dowel'. But am I correct in doing this? As ever advice gratefully received Regards Mark

Mark

Aug 07, 2019 9:15 am

Subject: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice

I need to strip down the screen frame on my M45 tourer for rechroming and glass replacement.

As far as I can assess the top rail and sides do not come apart and would be rechromed as one piece. Is this correct?

If so,then I have to remove the bottom curved rail to remove the glass. There are two steel screws on each side about 30mm from the base and what looks like a 'brass dowel' in each bottom corner but no slot for unscrewing this.

I have drilled out the steel screws as they were heavily rusted but the frame remains solidly together!
I am now considering drilling out the 'brass dowel'. But am I correct in doing this?

As ever advice gratefully received
Regards
Mark

Mark	Aug 09, 2019 2:44 pm
Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice Well, I have made progress. Firstly the 'brass dowel' I mention above is actually the way in which the end of the channel is closed off and plays no part in holding the corners of the frame together. So it should not be drilled out! The bottom corners are secured by steel angle brackets. Drilling the two steel 2BA screws out on each side should enable the bottom curved rail to come away from the top section. However, the steel angle brackets rust in place making it difficult to separate the bottom rail from the uprights. Using a soft drift and tapping gently it eventually comes apart. You are then left with the steel angle bracket remaining in each side of the bottom rail. The problem is the steel bracket having rusted and expanded through 86 years is stuck fast in a small box section! So lots of WD40 has been applied and we will see what happens. If anyone has a means of removing these rusted brackets from within the box section of the bottom rail I would be most grateful for the advice Regards Mark

Mark

Aug 09, 2019 2:44 pm

Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice

Well, I have made progress.

Firstly the 'brass dowel' I mention above is actually the way in which the end of the channel is closed off and plays no part in holding the corners of the frame together. So it should not be drilled out!

The bottom corners are secured by steel angle brackets. Drilling the two steel 2BA screws out on each side should enable the bottom curved rail to come away from the top section. However, the steel angle brackets rust in place making it difficult to separate the bottom rail from the uprights. Using a soft drift and tapping gently it eventually comes apart.

You are then left with the steel angle bracket remaining in each side of the bottom rail. The problem is the steel bracket having rusted and expanded through 86 years is stuck fast in a small box section! So lots of WD40 has been applied and we will see what happens.

If anyone has a means of removing these rusted brackets from within the box section of the bottom rail I would be most grateful for the advice

Regards
Mark

bill	Aug 11, 2019 8:41 am
Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice Try some heat with blow torch or oxy. The expansion may do the trick.

bill

Aug 11, 2019 8:41 am

Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice

Try some heat with blow torch or oxy. The expansion may do the trick.

h14	Aug 14, 2019 8:47 am
Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice I've found vinegar is pretty good at dissolving rust, even heavy deposits. Leave immersed a couple of days, check, and repeat as necessary. Some provisos. Firstly, the vinegar will attack plating if it is poor, or in poor condition. As the metals are dissimilar, there is a possibility of electrolytic action. Due to guests staying I overlooked checking a copper brake pipe with wound steel wire protective covering. After 5 days, the steel had disappeared ... Hmmm, that could be a result for you... Laurence

h14

Aug 14, 2019 8:47 am

Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice

I've found vinegar is pretty good at dissolving rust, even heavy deposits. Leave immersed a couple of days, check, and repeat as necessary. Some provisos. Firstly, the vinegar will attack plating if it is poor, or in poor condition. As the metals are dissimilar, there is a possibility of electrolytic action. Due to guests staying I overlooked checking a copper brake pipe with wound steel wire protective covering. After 5 days, the steel had disappeared ... Hmmm, that could be a result for you...
Laurence

Mark	Aug 14, 2019 11:50 am
Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice Grateful for both replies. I have applied some heat but with a brass screen frame I have to be very careful not to distort it ! The vinegar option is one I had not thought of and I will try it. The chrome needs replating so any discoloration is not a problem. Another option is to seek to cut down the length of the rusted bracket inside the small box section with a hacksaw. It would have to be a ground down hand held blade or a jig saw. However their is only about 10mm clearance so that is difficult and risks damaging the frame that is in quite good order. I will report back on the vinegar! Thanks Mark

Mark

Aug 14, 2019 11:50 am

Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice

Grateful for both replies.
I have applied some heat but with a brass screen frame I have to be very careful not to distort it !
The vinegar option is one I had not thought of and I will try it. The chrome needs replating so any discoloration is not a problem.
Another option is to seek to cut down the length of the rusted bracket inside the small box section with a hacksaw. It would have to be a ground down hand held blade or a jig saw. However their is only about 10mm clearance so that is difficult and risks damaging the frame that is in quite good order.
I will report back on the vinegar!
Thanks
Mark

bill	Aug 15, 2019 10:33 am
Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice Assuming that I have understood the problem correctly (can you post any photos ?) is it possible to use a 1mm cutting disc in a small angle grinder very carefully ? Without applying too much side pressure one can also use these discs for grinding in confined spaces.

bill

Aug 15, 2019 10:33 am

Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice

Assuming that I have understood the problem correctly (can you post any photos ?) is it possible to use a 1mm cutting disc in a small angle grinder very carefully ? Without applying too much side pressure one can also use these discs for grinding in confined spaces.

Mark	Aug 15, 2019 5:17 pm
Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice Hi Bill I am having problems resizing the photos so a description will have to suffice. The bottom corners of the screen frame on the M45 tourer (and other models with a T7 body) is held together in a mitre by a small right angled steel bracket. This fits inside the brass upright and the bottom curved rail. It is held in place with 2BA steel screws which are countersunk into the brass frame. On the bottom rail it actually sits (and rusts!) inside the rectangular box section formed in the bottom rail. This box section has internal dimensions of approx 10mm wide by 18mm deep. It may be possible to get a hacksaw or jig saw blade down in the box section to cut through the remnants of the rusted bracket. However, I cannot see how a Dremel driven cutting disk could be used but one of the small grinding attachments might help. The main issue is to not damage the brass screen frame so the first option is a soaking for several days in vinegar as suggested by Laurence. If that fails then more aggressive solutions will be tried! Progress reports to follow. Regards Mark

Mark

Aug 15, 2019 5:17 pm

Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice

Hi Bill
I am having problems resizing the photos so a description will have to suffice.

The bottom corners of the screen frame on the M45 tourer (and other models with a T7 body) is held together in a mitre by a small right angled steel bracket. This fits inside the brass upright and the bottom curved rail. It is held in place with 2BA steel screws which are countersunk into the brass frame.

On the bottom rail it actually sits (and rusts!) inside the rectangular box section formed in the bottom rail. This box section has internal dimensions of approx 10mm wide by 18mm deep.

It may be possible to get a hacksaw or jig saw blade down in the box section to cut through the remnants of the rusted bracket. However, I cannot see how a Dremel driven cutting disk could be used but one of the small grinding attachments might help.

The main issue is to not damage the brass screen frame so the first option is a soaking for several days in vinegar as suggested by Laurence.

If that fails then more aggressive solutions will be tried! Progress reports to follow.

Regards
Mark

h14	Aug 16, 2019 9:28 am
Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice Hi Mark, I hope the vinegar does a good job for you. Don't forget to check daily, and every couple of days, take it out of the vinegar and wash with an old toothbrush or whatever gives good access, with washing up liquid, and rinse. Riffle around with a suitable tool to break away detached rust and debris, rinse and dry, then back in the vinegar. This will enable the vinegar to act on fresh surfaces and speed up the job, as well as giving you an idea of progress. Laurence

h14

Aug 16, 2019 9:28 am

Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice

Hi Mark,
I hope the vinegar does a good job for you. Don't forget to check daily, and every couple of days, take it out of the vinegar and wash with an old toothbrush or whatever gives good access, with washing up liquid, and rinse. Riffle around with a suitable tool to break away detached rust and debris, rinse and dry, then back in the vinegar. This will enable the vinegar to act on fresh surfaces and speed up the job, as well as giving you an idea of progress.
Laurence

bruffsup	Aug 16, 2019 9:53 am
Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice I have successfully used molasses ( trickle) to un seize badly rusted cast iron pistons stuck in the bores of an old Motosacoche engine. Like vinegar immerse for several days or longer and gentle heat may be beneficial.

bruffsup

Aug 16, 2019 9:53 am

Subject: Re: M45 Tourer Screen Frame Advice

I have successfully used molasses ( trickle) to un seize badly rusted cast iron pistons stuck in the bores of an old Motosacoche engine. Like vinegar immerse for several days or longer and gentle heat may be beneficial.