Lagondaforum » Other » Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards?

bruffsup	Jun 13, 2011 6:56 pm
Subject: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards? Can someone please explain what is the function of the drilled flange. If indeed cycle wings were fitted they would then turn with the wheel. Surely this is not the purpose. Mystified yet again. Thanks, Barry
Attachments: LAG BACKING PLATE.jpg (Filesize: 57.42 KB)

eddie bourke	Jun 14, 2011 12:33 am
Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards? Hi Barry, I have seen these used on M45's and they were also used on the 3L 's that had cycle wings fitted. Never saw a M45 with cycle wings fitted this way and think that they had a good stock of these backplates to use up when the M45 went in to production. Eddie.

bruffsup	Jun 14, 2011 1:01 am
Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards? Thanks for the quick reply Eddie . Much appreciated.

daveroberts	Jun 18, 2011 8:44 pm
Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards? Barry, My 1935 M45 ST34 pillarless saloon is fitted with cycle front mudguards, supported by the flange on the backplate, and a second flange on a boss near the king pin. Hope this helps. Regards...Dave.

Colin M34	Jun 19, 2011 1:51 pm
Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards? Hi Dave, An M45 ST34 pillarless saloon with long wings looks pretty good. I would imagine that with cycle front mudguards it looks spectacular! Can you post a picture of it on this site? Colin M45

daveroberts	Jun 21, 2011 12:35 pm
Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards? Hi Colin, details of my M45 are as follows :- Reg No . VJ 6739 Type M45. ST34 Engine No. 2893 Car no. Z11143 I have several photo's of the car whenI acquired it some years ago. They clearly show the helmet front wings, mounted on the backplates and the ski style of running board, also present on a ST24. Unfortunately time, woodworm. and accident damage had reduced the pillarless bodywork to the scuttle and bonnet. i prefer wind in what is left of my hair motoring, so I have built a T2 body minus the side skirts. It will look like Geoff Seatons wonderful 3 litre tourer when finished. Yes, it yet another bloody tourer. However, I do have a saloon body within reach, that I could fit to the chassis now and again to keep the purists happy. I see in Holthausen's tome on the 4 i/2 litre , illustrations of ST24 and ST34, and apparentlySTt34 cars were available with the short or helmet or cycle wing to special order. Maybe my car is, or was a rarity. I will scan the photos shortly when i have worked out how to on my new scanner. Hope this helps. Regards...Dave.

daveroberts

Jun 21, 2011 12:35 pm

Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards?

Hi Colin,

details of my M45 are as follows :-

Reg No . VJ 6739
Type M45. ST34
Engine No. 2893
Car no. Z11143

I have several photo's of the car whenI acquired it some years ago. They clearly show the helmet front wings, mounted on the backplates and the ski style of running board, also present on a ST24. Unfortunately time, woodworm. and accident damage had reduced the pillarless bodywork to the scuttle and bonnet.

i prefer wind in what is left of my hair motoring, so I have built a T2 body minus the side skirts. It will look like Geoff Seatons wonderful 3 litre tourer when finished. Yes, it yet another bloody tourer. However, I do have a saloon body within reach, that I could fit to the chassis now and again to keep the purists happy. I see in Holthausen's tome on the 4 i/2 litre , illustrations of ST24 and ST34, and apparentlySTt34 cars were available with the short or helmet or cycle wing to special order.
Maybe my car is, or was a rarity.

I will scan the photos shortly when i have worked out how to on my new scanner. Hope this helps.

Regards...Dave.

daveroberts	Jun 24, 2011 2:08 pm
Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards? Hi Colin, I have had trouble compressing the photo files down to less than 200 Kb to upload to the forum, so I have sent then to you to forward if you have the knack. Please forgive the shot showing it as LHD! However, you can see the louvred panel below the scuttle not present on long wing cars. as you can see, there was not a lot of the original body, merely the scuttle and the base framework bolted to the chassis with numerous outriggers. I was restoring a low chassis 2 litre at the time and I needed somewhere to park the body whilst the chassis was being worked on, and was most surprised that it fitted the Z chassis when placed on top. The extra 9" of wheelbase on the Z chassis is found in the bonnet length. Dave

daveroberts

Jun 24, 2011 2:08 pm

Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards?

Hi Colin,
I have had trouble compressing the photo files down to less than 200 Kb to upload to the forum, so I have sent then to you to forward if you have the knack. Please forgive the shot showing it as LHD!
However, you can see the louvred panel below the scuttle not present on long wing cars. as you can see, there was not a lot of the original body, merely the scuttle and the base framework bolted to the chassis with numerous outriggers.

I was restoring a low chassis 2 litre at the time and I needed somewhere to park the body whilst the chassis was being worked on, and was most surprised that it fitted the Z chassis when placed on top. The extra 9" of wheelbase on the Z chassis is found in the bonnet length.

Dave

daveroberts	Jun 24, 2011 10:18 pm
Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards? Hi Colin, The remains of my M45 ST34 with helmet front wings, as requested. Regards...Dave

daveroberts

Jun 24, 2011 10:18 pm

Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards?

Hi Colin,

The remains of my M45 ST34 with helmet front wings, as requested.

Regards...Dave

Colin M34	Jun 27, 2011 9:26 am
Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards? Here are Dave’s photos. Very interesting! We have to remember several rules with Lagondas – firstly, a customer could have anything they wanted. and secondly, no two Lagondas are alike so you will always find an exception to prove the rule. To my eyes, the cycle wings and ski running boards on Dave’s car look pretty original. This is supported by the fact that the headlamp bracket assembly is braced as per cycle winged cars. Also note that these wings turn with the wheels compared with helmet wings often fitted to ST24 cars. Now it gets confusing. The ski running boards were normally supplied to cars with fixed helmet wings. These do not move with steering whereas the cycle wings do and cars with these wings cars normally had short running boards. So here are my thoughts. Perhaps a customer was upgrading from an earlier car and liked cycle wings. I’m sure the sales man would be very happy to agree to an unusual specification, or being 6 months from bankruptcy in 1935, perhaps the factory had some cycle wing kits left over and made this as a special edition to clear the stock. Or maybe the car might have had a crash early in its life and was repaired locally or went back to the factory to be fitted with a new or second hand cycle wing kit. Whatever the reality is, these are clearly original Lagonda made wings which have been on the car for a long time. Dave’s chassis number is Z11143 which is one car later than my M45 saloon number Z11142. Both of our cars were ST34 bodies and I have posted a picture of my car taken around 1937 which has the normal long wings. Curiously, Dave’s car was registered in mid November 1934 whereas mine was not registered till mid April 1935, four months later. Perhaps mine was a demonstrator on trade plates or maybe simply hung around unsold in a dealer’s showroom. Dave, thanks for the photos. I look forward to seeing your M45 in its new cycle-winged tourer guise. For me, part of the fun with Lagondas is tracking down quirks such as these.
Attachments: 11143.jpg (Filesize: 171.43 KB) 11143_1.jpg (Filesize: 198.94 KB) 11143_21.jpg (Filesize: 199.41 KB) 11143_3.jpg (Filesize: 199.84 KB) m45 in 1937 -1.jpg (Filesize: 199.54 KB)

Colin M34

Jun 27, 2011 9:26 am

Subject: Re: Are my M45 backing plates designed for cycle mudguards?

Here are Dave’s photos. Very interesting! We have to remember several rules with Lagondas – firstly, a customer could have anything they wanted. and secondly, no two Lagondas are alike so you will always find an exception to prove the rule.

To my eyes, the cycle wings and ski running boards on Dave’s car look pretty original. This is supported by the fact that the headlamp bracket assembly is braced as per cycle winged cars. Also note that these wings turn with the wheels compared with helmet wings often fitted to ST24 cars. Now it gets confusing. The ski running boards were normally supplied to cars with fixed helmet wings. These do not move with steering whereas the cycle wings do and cars with these wings cars normally had short running boards.

So here are my thoughts. Perhaps a customer was upgrading from an earlier car and liked cycle wings. I’m sure the sales man would be very happy to agree to an unusual specification, or being 6 months from bankruptcy in 1935, perhaps the factory had some cycle wing kits left over and made this as a special edition to clear the stock. Or maybe the car might have had a crash early in its life and was repaired locally or went back to the factory to be fitted with a new or second hand cycle wing kit.

Whatever the reality is, these are clearly original Lagonda made wings which have been on the car for a long time.

Dave’s chassis number is Z11143 which is one car later than my M45 saloon number Z11142. Both of our cars were ST34 bodies and I have posted a picture of my car taken around 1937 which has the normal long wings. Curiously, Dave’s car was registered in mid November 1934 whereas mine was not registered till mid April 1935, four months later. Perhaps mine was a demonstrator on trade plates or maybe simply hung around unsold in a dealer’s showroom.

Dave, thanks for the photos. I look forward to seeing your M45 in its new cycle-winged tourer guise. For me, part of the fun with Lagondas is tracking down quirks such as these.

Attachments:
11143.jpg (Filesize: 171.43 KB)
11143_1.jpg (Filesize: 198.94 KB)
11143_21.jpg (Filesize: 199.41 KB)
11143_3.jpg (Filesize: 199.84 KB)
m45 in 1937 -1.jpg (Filesize: 199.54 KB)