Lagondaforum » Engine » Block, Head and Internals

Peter S30	Apr 07, 2008 9:24 am
Subject: oil in water Here is an image of the 3litre now companion of my V12. I bought it knowing about the problem with the motor, but not knowing yet how much of a problem it will be. The second image shows a look into the oil and water: brownish-oily in the water and white emulsion in the oil. Head gasket or crack in block or head, or the wet liners lower end seal ? I was told that ompression of number 6 cylinder is low , I will measure how low and how the others are. I hope for a combination of wet liner seals plus head gasket. But I think the motor is ready annywhay for a complete overhaul. Tips on the topic welcome (repair manuals, what to avoid, specialties on this motor..) Peter
Attachments: V12+3LTR-ac1.JPG (Filesize: 106.56 KB) wasser-öl-c1.jpg (Filesize: 51.56 KB)

Peter S30

Apr 07, 2008 9:24 am

Subject: oil in water

Here is an image of the 3litre now companion of my V12. I bought it knowing about the problem with the motor, but not knowing yet how much of a problem it will be.

The second image shows a look into the oil and water: brownish-oily in the water and white emulsion in the oil. Head gasket or crack in block or head, or the wet liners lower end seal ? Helpless

I was told that ompression of number 6 cylinder is low , I will measure how low and how the others are. I hope for a combination of wet liner seals plus head gasket. But I think the motor is ready annywhay for a complete overhaul.

Tips on the topic welcome (repair manuals, what to avoid, specialties on this motor..)

Peter

Attachments:
V12+3LTR-ac1.JPG (Filesize: 106.56 KB)
wasser-öl-c1.jpg (Filesize: 51.56 KB)

john	Apr 07, 2008 10:17 pm
Subject: Re: oil in water Hi Peter, Could be as you have said ,do you know if the head has been off. other sources valve guides .If you care to send me your email address i will try to help further John. woodyward@hotmail. co.uk

john

Apr 07, 2008 10:17 pm

Subject: Re: oil in water

Hi Peter, Could be as you have said ,do you know if the head has been off. other sources valve guides .If you care to send me your email address i will try to help further John.
woodyward@hotmail. co.uk

Peter S30	Apr 14, 2008 9:28 pm
Subject: Re: oil in water Hi John and others, After making an adapter for my compression tester (I was surprised by the nice little spark plug with M10 thread, like from a model plane) I have now measured compression and found from cylinder 6 to 1: 4, 4, 8, 4, 8, 8 Now I am going to get the workshop manual (source found) and a head gasket (good/cheap supplier?) and then try to take the head off. I do not hope to much that it is only the gasket but would be good to have it. Useful other tests suggested before that ? May be compression test with oil sprayed in to compare and see if low compression comes form piston rings or the head ? Enough questions for today Peter

Peter S30

Apr 14, 2008 9:28 pm

Subject: Re: oil in water

Hi John and others,

After making an adapter for my compression tester (I was surprised by the nice little spark plug with M10 thread, like from a model plane) I have now measured compression and found from cylinder 6 to 1:
4, 4, 8, 4, 8, 8
Now I am going to get the workshop manual (source found) and a head gasket (good/cheap supplier?) and then try to take the head off. I do not hope to much that it is only the gasket but would be good to have it.
Useful other tests suggested before that ? May be compression test with oil sprayed in to compare and see if low compression comes form piston rings or the head ?

Enough questions for today
Peter

Peter S30	May 08, 2008 11:51 am
Subject: Re: oil in water not a reply to myself but the continuation of the story: the head is now off. Don´t forget the two heating pipes to the inlet manifold ! also dont put the rope for pulling off the head around them (guess what I did) here are some impressions from the action and a look insite. More inspection to come: the valves look quite bad and coked. The liners look ok only number 5 has some rust (because of the water in oil). Now I will make the down-holding device to the liners before turning the engine and see the other cylinders. I am tempted only to give the head to be refurbished and leave the rest of the engine. Impressive how little space there is for the head gasket to seal between cylinders 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 ! Suggestions whether or not to enamel the exhaust manifold ? it looks like it originally was. Paint the inlet manifold ?
Attachments: head removed.jpg (Filesize: 121.94 KB) head and cat.jpg (Filesize: 141.16 KB) kopf1.jpg (Filesize: 129.54 KB) cylinder5.jpg (Filesize: 102.23 KB) liftachair.jpg (Filesize: 161.74 KB)

Peter S30

May 08, 2008 11:51 am

Subject: Re: oil in water

not a reply to myself but the continuation of the story:

the head is now off. Don´t forget the two heating pipes to the inlet manifold ! also dont put the rope for pulling off the head around them (guess what I did) Grinning

here are some impressions from the action and a look insite. More inspection to come: the valves look quite bad and coked. The liners look ok only number 5 has some rust (because of the water in oil). Now I will make the down-holding device to the liners before turning the engine and see the other cylinders. I am tempted only to give the head to be refurbished and leave the rest of the engine.

Impressive how little space there is for the head gasket to seal between cylinders 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 !

Suggestions whether or not to enamel the exhaust manifold ? it looks like it originally was. Paint the inlet manifold ?

Attachments:
head removed.jpg (Filesize: 121.94 KB)
head and cat.jpg (Filesize: 141.16 KB)
kopf1.jpg (Filesize: 129.54 KB)
cylinder5.jpg (Filesize: 102.23 KB)
liftachair.jpg (Filesize: 161.74 KB)

reevsy	May 09, 2008 4:00 pm
Subject: Re: oil in water Hi Peter 1. How was it getting the engine out? 2. I would have the bores checked and if possible replace the piston rings. 3. Yes to the head including valves, seats, seals and other part of the head. 4. Now to me an important part. Descale flush, flush and flush again as much of the engine and other parts of the cooling system as you can. These engines are prone to running HOT! 5. Exhaust. If I did my engine again I thing I may have the exhaust manifold bound in heat tape before putting it back in the car. It gets very hot under the bonnet and this may help cooling? But this is open to discussion! 6. Have a look at the front of the engine by the distributer area they are prone to leak oil change gaskets as necessary. 7. Have a look at the water pump impellor and again clean out any sediment/scale as required Peter

reevsy

May 09, 2008 4:00 pm

Subject: Re: oil in water

Hi Peter
1.  How was it getting the engine out?
2.  I would have the bores checked and if possible replace the piston rings.
3.  Yes to the head including valves, seats, seals and other part of the head.
4.  Now to me an important part. Descale flush, flush and flush again as much of the engine and other parts of the cooling system as you can. These engines are prone to running HOT!
5.  Exhaust. If I did my engine again I thing I may have the exhaust manifold bound in heat tape before putting it back in the car. It gets very hot under the bonnet and this may help cooling? But this is open to discussion!
6.  Have a look at the front of the engine by the distributer area they are prone to leak oil change gaskets as necessary.
7.  Have a look at the water pump impellor and again clean out any sediment/scale as required
Peter

Colin M34	May 09, 2008 7:57 pm
Subject: Re: oil in water Hi Guys, Peter, good luck with your engine work. I would like to pick up Reevsy 's point about recommending the binding of the exhaust manifold with heat tape. I think this is an excellent idea! As many of you know, M45s also get a little hot under the bonnet and I have attached a photo showing how I have bound mine. The heat tape I used came from a company called "car builder solutions." Their web site is http://www.nfauto.co.uk/ Cheers Colin M35
Attachments: M45 exhaust wrap.jpg (Filesize: 238.47 KB)

Colin M34

May 09, 2008 7:57 pm

Subject: Re: oil in water

Hi Guys,

Peter, good luck with your engine work.

I would like to pick up Reevsy 's point about recommending the binding of the exhaust manifold with heat tape. I think this is an excellent idea! As many of you know, M45s also get a little hot under the bonnet and I have attached a photo showing how I have bound mine.

The heat tape I used came from a company called "car builder solutions." Their web site is http://www.nfauto.co.uk/

Cheers

Colin M35

Attachments:
M45 exhaust wrap.jpg (Filesize: 238.47 KB)

reevsy	May 09, 2008 9:52 pm
Subject: Re: oil in water Hi Collin. With binding your exhaust outlet as you have, did you have to put any extra shielding to the under body of the car to protect against excessive exhaust heat? Reevsy

reevsy

May 09, 2008 9:52 pm

Subject: Re: oil in water

Hi Collin.
With binding your exhaust outlet as you have, did you have to put any extra shielding to the under body of the car to protect against excessive exhaust heat?

Reevsy

Colin M34	May 10, 2008 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: oil in water Hi Peter, I have not bothered so far, though when the restoration is complete and I start using the M45, I will keep a look out for warm passenger's feet! Actually, the M45 the silencer is in quite a flow of air so I don't think it should matter. Colin

Colin M34

May 10, 2008 1:21 pm

Subject: Re: oil in water

Hi Peter,

I have not bothered so far, though when the restoration is complete and I start using the M45, I will keep a look out for warm passenger's feet!

Actually, the M45 the silencer is in quite a flow of air so I don't think it should matter.

Colin

Peter S30	May 13, 2008 7:22 am
Subject: Re: oil in water Hi, thank you for ideas and recommendations 1. the engine is not yet out, so far I only took the head off, not shure yet, if I will take the engine out and how (removing front end of body or not, remove with gearbox or leave that in) 2. one of the wet liners (number 4) protrudes the block by about 0.15mm (0.006inch). It is not possible to knock it in (with an aluminium block in between not to damage it). I wonder if the head gasket can compensate for this and why it is higher than the rest of the wet liners, which are all flat with the block. Peter

Peter S30

May 13, 2008 7:22 am

Subject: Re: oil in water

Hi, thank you for ideas and recommendations

1. the engine is not yet out, so far I only took the head off, not shure yet, if I will take the engine out and how (removing front end of body or not, remove with gearbox or leave that in)

2. one of the wet liners (number 4) protrudes the block by about 0.15mm (0.006inch). It is not possible to knock it in (with an aluminium block in between not to damage it). I wonder if the head gasket can compensate for this and why it is higher than the rest of the wet liners, which are all flat with the block.

Peter