Lagondaforum

Subject: Re: Wrong description of an LG45 at Retromobile

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I received the catalogue several weeks ago and alerted Bonhams who, in first instance, did not react. After several emails from me it was with great reluctance that someone from Bonhams finally contacted me and said that they would rectify it on their website (it was, of course, too late to rectify the catalogue) which they have, as I said - very inconspicuously. They obviously find it hard to admit a mistake. I then decided to share my views with you in this Forum.
Holthusen wrote a great book, sure, but it is ridiculously expensive and I don't have it. I wish I did. But other books on Lagonda also point out the differences between a 1935 M45 Team car and a 1937 LG45 Team car. Seaton's and Davey's books gave me all the necessary data; this is not only the wrong body for a 1937 LG45 Team Car but it is also a poor replica.
Personally I agree with the view that there are no objections to bodyless cars being recreated as team cars (although they will never have the magic of an original), but to demolish a restorable saloon body to built some replica (which happens) I find reprehensable.
Far more interesting than this mongrel is the fabulous (and original) 1936 LG45 Drophead Coupe which will be auctioned just before it. I shall be at the auction and will report what both cars have fetched.

Subject: Re: Wrong description of an LG45 at Retromobile

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Hi Oakley,
It'll be interesting to hear your assessment of the drophead and just how original (or correct) it is. You can see from the photos it is missing the oil tank for the jacks (you can see the holes on the bulkhead where it should be). If you get the opportunity have a look underneath and take some photos. Shouldn't the rear panel have a swage line along the edge above the rear wing and the base of the hood, or were some of them made without this?
I have been to a number of auctions in the UK where there was an LG45 lot and have generally been disappointed at the standard of the restored ones. I hope this one doesn't disappoint.

Subject: Re: Wrong description of an LG45 at Retromobile

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I shall be at the private preview the evening before and will have ample opportunity to take pictures.
However, I am not an LG45 expert so let me know what exactly it is that you want photographed and I will see what I can do.

Subject: Re: Wrong description of an LG45 at Retromobile

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I'm no expert either but I have had a good look at quite a few.
Any underneath photos would be nice. In particular have a look and see if the original shocks and the jacks are there - easiest to see at the front by looking from under the front bumper. And whether the jack pump is there (in the left dummy wheel cover). Check the door fit too, they often don't close very well and this one looks like it may have a problem there. Possible cause is rot in the hinge post. They can rot from the exposed bottom end upwards a surprisingly long way and make the bottom hinge loose.

Subject: Re: Wrong description of an LG45 at Retromobile

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I do not quite see the point of taking pictures to check if this car is allright or not.
I am only prepared to photograph any details of the car that would enhance the general knowledge of this type of Lagonda.

Subject: Re: Wrong description of an LG45 at Retromobile

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Hi Folks,

Actually, the pictures that DavidLG45 is asking for would be very valuable for all Lagonda enthusiasts.

Arnold Davey tells me that during Walter Buckingham's time as head of coachbuilding with Lagondas, he refused to make dropheads because of the weight of the doors on the hinge post. However customers really wanted a drophead so they went behind Buckingham's back and commissioned a batch of drophead bodies from VdP. The original batch included one Three Litre, one Two Litre and four 16/80s. Some more 16/80s were finished off in the factory, including my one whose designation on the chassis plate is "S.DHC1".

When the LG45 drophead was produced, Frank Feely had replaced Buckingham and they really did need a factory drophead in the model range. He designed a massive cross member to which the hinge post is attached to support the weight of the doors. The challenge with any drophead - particularly LG 45s - is the door fit, and unless the hinge post is in really good shape the doors will drop and then the door often won't close very well. This may not be apparent on examination at an auction and can be an expensive thing to repair! So just because a car looks flash and sells for a lot of money, it doesn't mean that it might have some very severe problems in this department.

For this reason Oakley will be doing fellow members a favour if he can get some good photos of this car as suggested by David. The Lagonda Club secretary keeps a comprehensive photographic archive of all known cars and it would be great of Oakley could let the secretary have some copies - the more the better!

Cheers

Colin

Subject: Re: Wrong description of an LG45 at Retromobile

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Because the problem is apparently well-known, I don't see the point of checking if this particular car has good hinge posts or not. Besides, such a thing is difficult to photograph. However, I will open the doors and look if they drop or not. For the benefit of the Club Secretary's Archives, excellent photographs of the car, better than I can ever make, are readily available and can simply be downloaded from the Bonhams website.

Subject: Re: Wrong description of an LG45 at Retromobile

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Hi Oakley...

OK its up to you what you decide to do at the auction. However it is precisely because the problem is well-known that it would be nice to have a go and take some snapshots of this particular car. When you open the doors to see if they if they drop, some close ups of the inside bottoms of the hinge posts would great. The club doesn't just want excellent posed photographs it needs snaps which are squirrelled away to help members in the future. I'm sure you would like to help club members in the future. If it's too much trouble, then don't worry. Have a great time at the show.

Hi David...
For various reasons I would like to continue this debate regarding LG 45 drophead hinge posts and if you or anyone else would care to send me a private message, we can continue the discussion off line and perhaps post the outcome as a new thread. This could include possibly discussing Oakley's snaps. IMHO rotten hinge posts are possibly the single most likely reason why factory LG 45 dropheads are turned into boy racers and I need to understand this a bit more, particularly how they can be repaired.

At some stage in the future we might be able comfort a new club member who paid a lot of money in an auction for one of these dropheads only to discover he had a problem.

Colin M34

Subject: Re: Wrong description of an LG45 at Retromobile

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I will go to this auction too (not that I have money to spend but there are really nice cars to see +Retromobile +Paris +meeting friends). I will make a bunch of fotos for you of the two Lagondas, especially the DHC (also close ups of door hinges)

Subject: Re: Wrong description of an LG45 at Retromobile

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It was a very long auction, the french lady from Bonhams took a bit to much time playing here charme.. I left after about 4 hours after most of the interesting cars had been sold. In all most remained under the low estimates (put rather high). Record braking was the Bugati Brescia wreck pulled out of Lago Maggiore after 70 years and fetching 230´000 EUR ! It can be used as sculpture as is. A car dealer said using the chassis and engine numbers it will be an original Bugatti after reconstruction. I do not share this opinion. See also prewarcar.com

The 2 Lagondas:
the LG45 DHC was very nice overall. The drivers door was hanging a bit low (the problem Colin mentioned). And it scraped on the bottom side when opening. There was a crack in the body close to the boot lid, jackall was missing, underside looked good, wheels not perfect. Sold for 140´000EUR plus premium.

the LG45 -sort of M45 Le Mans replica:
sold for 112´000 EUR plus premium. I think most has been said about this car. Another point in making profit with these replicas is that they even can be in rather used and scratched condition which looks like "historic racing use".

A few photos attached I have some more if needed

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