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Mar 30, 2010 4:15 pm
1997mx Offline
Member
Registered since: Mar 30, 2010
Location: -


Subject: Who built the body for Lagonda v12
Hi I purchased a V12 Lagonda 1984 from the Henry Ellard collection.
We knew it was one of the two chassis ordered by Graber of Switzerland for
bespoke coachwork in 1939 but never delivered.
It was 1st registered as GUK 474 13TH JUNE 1949.
Owners listed/ Sir Alfred McLain & Sons Ltd, Hooton Road,Hooton,Cheshire
Davis Motors Service at 25835 Miles, August 1953
Henry Ellard, Wolverhampton
John Critchley
Now with red trim and owned by Jeremy Critchley at 26500 miles.
Ever since I have had it, it has been in my garage.

What we would like to know about the car is who designed and built the present body,
which seems to be unique.

In my opinion the rear of the car looks to be Lagonda and the front looks to be pure Aston Martin.
It looks very similar to the Aston Martin DB1 sports on the body and split screen it also has the same style bonnet.


Any help to find out more information on this car would be gratefully appreciated

My telephone number is

Kind Regards Jeremy

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This post has been edited 2 times. Last edit on Mar 30, 2010 4:59 pm by 1997mx.  

Apr 13, 2010 2:39 pm
h14 Offline
Member
Registered since: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Chalandray, France


Subject: Re: Who built the body for Lagonda v12
Hi Jeremy,
I remember seeing your car at the Ellard sale. In the absence of any other replies, does it have a Lagonda chassis & engine number plate (brass, should be nailed/riveted to the bulkhead facing the engine), and what information does that give (apart from which oils are recommended)?

Laurence
 

Apr 13, 2010 4:59 pm
alistair Offline
Member
Registered since: Dec 04, 2007
Location: -


Subject: Re: Who built the body for Lagonda v12
Jeremy

I have the Ellard auction catalogue (which you may also have?) and your car is Lot 16, chassis 14122 (although Ellard seemed to swap around the engines/bodies so the numbers are not very reliable). Was green with red trim in 1984 and needing the restoration which you have obviously done - looks beautiful now! If you want a photocopy of the catalogue entry I will happily send to your home as shown in Lagonda register. Do you see the similarities with the Lagonda Tickford and Healey Tickford saloons?
Alistair Crawford
 

Apr 14, 2010 11:27 pm
1997mx Offline
Member
Registered since: Mar 30, 2010
Location: -


Subject: Re: Who built the body for Lagonda v12
Dear Alistair and Lawrence
Thank you for your reply. I actually have the sales catalogue of when we bought the car. The ID plate reads V12.CH, engine no. V12/8. Fitted with spare Le Mans cylinder head with 4 carburettors. Wouldn't it be nice to find someone who remembers the car before Henry Ellard bought it? At the moment the engine is out, being re built.
Thank you for all your help, if anything else springs to mind it would be of great interest,
Kind Regards Jeremy
 

May 08, 2010 6:56 pm
h14 Offline
Member
Registered since: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Chalandray, France


Subject: Re: Who built the body for Lagonda v12
Hi Jeremy,
The factory ID plate should show Chassis 14122 & engine 14122. If yours shows the engine as V12/8, then that indicates the body wasn't built by the factory. Unless of course Ellard lost/replaced the original plate. Is it still fitted with V12/8? That's very early, almost prototype...presumably Sanction 1 with oil filler through the n/s exhaust manifold? Lagonda were great ones for swapping engines around, which probably explains why their ID plates never showed the real engine number. Take my V12...first reg December 1940, & taken off the road April 1945 for complete rebuild (yes, really!) in which time it covered 13500 miles, & had had 3 different engines fitted! Your engine number should be something in the low 200s, but of course anything possible at the factory. Is the chassis number 14122 stamped on the timing cover fan boss? That would at least prove that is your original engine. If it shows another number, then it's likely Ellard swapped it for another...which would then indicate the ID plate is Ellard fabrication.
Laurence
 

May 10, 2010 11:08 pm
1997mx Offline
Member
Registered since: Mar 30, 2010
Location: -


Subject: Re: Who built the body for Lagonda v12
Dear Lawrence,
The factory ID plate reads
Type V12. CH
Engine no. 14122
Car no. 14122
The no. on the timing cover fan reads V12-8. There is also another no. on the engine which is 14020. I have the original log book, and under manufacturers name it reads Lagonda (built up).

One of my thoughts is that the front of the car looks very simillar to the DB1 2Lt Sports by Fran Freely.
Jeremy
 

May 16, 2010 10:51 am
h14 Offline
Member
Registered since: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Chalandray, France


Subject: Re: Who built the body for Lagonda v12
Hi Jeremy,

Yes, sounds that's a factory ID plate which therefore blows that theory. At least you know your engine isn't the one first fitted to the car, I thought that number sounded very low! That doesn't mean it wasn't fitted by the factory though, as stated previously. Of course it's possible...likely even, that Ellard swapped engines around. If 14020 (the car) still survives, it would be interesting to see which engine number is fitted, especially if it's a late number & stamped 14022! Catalogue perhaps will show if 14020 was an Ellard car.
Yes, DB similarity is noticeable. Alan Good decided (wrongly as it turned out) that there wouldn't be a market for the V12 once the war ended, so it's unlikely yours was a show car to test market interest. Magazines at the time seemed to be keen to feature one-off cars, so it might be worth looking at Motor, Autocar & Motor Sport for the period around first registration of yours. I did this for my V12 & found it advertised for 3000 in 1946...not a bad mark-up on a car originally costing 1575 (think that was the price for the dhc in 1939)...back to what I said about he error in misreading the post-war market for the V12...apparently V12 Lagondas were in fact the most desired & therefore highly priced cars immediately after the war.
Lagonda (built up) sounds almost evasive! Perhaps that's how coachbuilt cars were described. On the other hand I think yours and (14121?) were "built up" from spares as chassis (at least?!) by the factory after the war. So it could be that that is all that was intended. That line could therefore mean it was first registered as a rolling chassis only...might be worth pursuing if that was feasible, as that will mean your body post-dates first registration. Might be worth checking the car's electrical equipment then, as Lucas items are generally stamped with month & year eg 5 46 means May 1946.
Devil's advocate here...I've yet to find any electrics on my V12 dated earlier than 1949...which is even stranger in that it was totally rebuilt in 1945!

Best

Laurence
 

May 16, 2010 11:44 am
h14 Offline
Member
Registered since: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Chalandray, France


Subject: Re: Who built the body for Lagonda v12
duplicate deleted
This post has been edited 1 times. Last edit on May 16, 2010 11:52 am by h14.  

May 16, 2010 4:56 pm
Colin M34 Offline
Member
Registered since: Dec 01, 2007
Location: Suffolk, UK


Subject: Re: Who built the body for Lagonda v12
Hi Laurence

Thanks to you and every one else for the story emerging here. Please keep up the good work - I am enjoying every new post about the history of such a beautiful car and learning a great deal !

Best

Colin M34
 

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