Lagondaforum

Subject: Re: LR132 Bonhams 19 May

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I doubt you will ever find a more original LR than 126...

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Subject: Re: LR132 Bonhams 19 May

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@ Simon, No offence taken at all (and I didn't mean to give any contrary impression). Yes, I hope to be at the auction on the Saturday and the Concours on the Sunday.

@ Christian, I am not at all sure what you mean. By 'original' do you mean 'original and unrestored'? If so, you may well be correct although a cynic might respond with 'and, so what?' If you mean 'to factory specification precisely as per build sheet and build' you might also be correct. But, a cynic might respond similarly. If you mean 'to the factory specification as per build sheet but ignoring minor upgrades and improvements' I doubt that you are correct. But, again, the cynics etc. etc..

My short point is this: If you want to buy a Rapide, my 'counsel of perfection' is to 'buy the best car you can find and afford' OR buy a 'special build' car OR buy a 'special history' car. If you are lucky enough to own already a car falling into one or more of these categories, why would you buy another comparable car - surely, you'd look for something better?

Subject: Re: LR132 Bonhams 19 May

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...yes unrestored, not many which were laid up within 10 years of being made...but who knows...

Got any spare coat hooks Tim?

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Subject: Re: LR132 Bonhams 19 May

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Indeed, but (cynically) so what? I would agree that if one wanted a time-warp (true) barn find Rapide it would be hard to find a better candidate than 126. However, that doesn't mean that many of the other 54 cars aren't (now) in great original condition too (whatever definition one might adopt). And, buying a true barn find is not a job for the faint-hearted or the shallow of pocket.

Subject: Re: LR132 Bonhams 19 May

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The coat hooks are 'bog standard' AM parts - used on the DB cars. I might have some tucked away but, in any event, they crop up on ebay often enough. Have you tried Puddleduck?

Subject: Re: LR132 Bonhams 19 May

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And hats off to those who take on a field-find!

Subject: Re: LR132 Bonhams 19 May

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Yes, very funny Tim! I've asked ASD if they have any.

Carrying on the originality topic...

You can say 'so what' to anything, it all depends on what you value in a classic car. Personnally I like originality and think that over restoring a car can destroy some of its authenticity.

Having said that I plan to fit an electric fan, epas, a 15" sub woofer in the boot, neons, side skirts, a spoiler, bad boy alloys and lower it by 3".

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Subject: Re: LR132 Bonhams 19 May

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Christian, my point was simply that 'barn find' unmolested condition is not, as you suggest strongly, a/the sine qua non of or for originality.

I, too, prize originality - but, not above all things by any means. Subtle upgrades to reflect modern driving conditions and technical developments trump such considerations, in my opinion.

I think that the only point upon which we are likely to agree is that cars in tip-top condition with a nice degree of original patina are more attractive and, in a sense, 'better' cars than those that have been subjected to a nut and bolt restoration. As the late RH Alan Clark put it so memorably, when describing the outcome of a ground-up restoration of a RR Silver Ghost bought cheaply by a friend, "a beautiful object, a noble artifact' had become "transformed, unrecognizable - and ghastly" having "undergone a complete character change, becoming a kind of status symbol".

Subject: Re: LR132 Bonhams 19 May

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Excellent some life in the old forum, good to see:

Christian - all good valid points, but any largely original car, will due to the age of it, need a fair bit of money spending on it, to bring it back to a good standard; update with PAS, electric fan; auto-gearbox upgrade if required to 4-speed etc.

The other modifications sound a bit naughty.. if you lower the car by 3 inches, then it will practically hit the floor, it is low enough already; might I suggest a compromise of 1.5 inches and a larger spolier to give better ground effects...

Tim- Originality vs restoration, a very tough cookie and where do you start, so here is a gentle opener..

Interior - reconnolising or repairing - still original trim, and same with walnut dashboard if it has to be french polished or interior chrome-work re-done. head lining, most will have sagged by now and need repalcement. Originality compromised - no.

Chrome-work- leave as is with verdigris and rust, I think not, have it replated or replace bumpers only with stainless steel? Originality compromised -possibly for bumpers, but very practuical solution, since many are now beyond re-plating

Engine / box- overhaul and rebuild /repair as required, still original, for some cars, just a long time since last major service..

Brakes and suspension - ditto

Chassis outriggers, sills, floor pans etc - leave it all as it is, and enjoy the patina and watch your car crumble into a bull of dust. I think not, sympathetic repair and replacement, to ensure structural integrity of the car and at the same time, certain rust trap areas sorted out, with drain holes, modern rust proofing materials etc..

Body-work - there are those who think should deskin back to the superlegera frame, sort it and then dip it to ensure electroytic problems are reduced. The other approach is to strip down as far as possible, and this exposes most of the frame-work anyway, and repair as required.

Paint-work - if you have deskinned, then where is the originality ?

Personally, imho, I think each car of these nearly unique machines should be treated on a car by car basis, there is no universal formula for all.

LR108- 25 years outside. Car stripped down to chassis, all original parts wherever possible have been stripped, repaired, reconditioned or where to rusted and beyond use, replaced with correct pattern items; major chassis work required of course. Originality imho, very good indeed and would happily have as well.

LR120 which I had a good look at, had been sadly neglected, and needs vast amounts of welding, a full respray, interior partially retrimmed, with black seats, and original red-trim to doors, new head-lining. But done by works service, originality at the moment, still good, but would look better with wide alloys and dark tinted windows, but not for me.

Curious what is the situation with your car now and in what state did you find it?

Before I finish this email, I have watched the AMOC web-site with interest for a long while. Where do you place the many pristine DB cars which have had a complete strip down, update /renovate, nuts and bolts rebuild, engine engine enlargement, gear-box change to a modern box and now look like new cars ?

Simon

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Subject: Re: LR132 Bonhams 19 May

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I prefer to repair my cars rather than restore them, so that the patina continues to develop rather than being polished away.