Lagondaforum

Subject: Waterless Coolant

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Anyone used waterless coolant in their cars?

I have it in my Aston DB6 and it has been very good. I have had a water heater valve diaphragm fail but don't think it is related to the coolant.

I've filled my LG45 system with Evans so will see what happens.

David

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Subject: Re: Waterless Coolant

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Used a similar product in my M45 some years ago. Found it a waste of time (and money). Better to resolve the cooling issues I think personally. On my M45 I fed the water pump outlet to the back of the head (like the 3 litre) but that is another story ...

Subject: Re: Waterless Coolant

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I fully agree with bill. If the cooling water boils it shows a problem that should be solved and I am very hesitating in using new products because sometimes they create unexpectected trouble elsewhere. For example these cooling liquids allow much higher temperatures before boiling (that is the idea) but is that really good? What does the chemistry do to the old materials in the long run? For modern traffic (jams) I put an electric fan on my cars.

Subject: Re: Waterless Coolant

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Hello
I am in total agreement with Bill & Peter.
Best to know if your engine is too hot.
Also you have to thoroughly flush out the existing coolant/water first before adding the waterless coolant (neither of which are cheap).
Then what happens when you get loss of water whilst out travelling? unless you are going to carry X amount of litres of the stuff around with you, you will have top up with water which reduces the benefits of the waterless coolant.
Just my opinion as I have not tried the stuff.
Best Regards
Chris

Subject: Re: Waterless Coolant

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Hi Chaps,

Just to agree with the others, start by making sure your radiator is completely de-scaled. When driving my LG45, after a fast run followed by a slow section I had the classic "brown shower" erupt from the radiator cap. It went all over my windscreen and I had to peer through a gap! I fixed this with lots of Fernox DS3

ideally, de-ionised water plus antifreeze and maybe a little soluble oil seems to be the right solution. Has any one else had experience of "Bars Leaks" which has been around since our cars were new?

Colin M34

Subject: Re: Waterless Coolant

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Colin;
I've had two experiences with Bars-Leak. In both cases, I didn't know the cars had this stuff in their coolants. The first car had a massive water loss halfway through a 700 mile trip, the second (in a used car I had bought the day before) did the same, though fortunately close to home. This stuff does work, but it hides the leaks and as we all know, mechanical systems are generally not self-repairing. Sooner or later the leakage gap grows to the point where the Bars-Leak can't fill it and the coolant just pours out. The only excuse for this stuff is as a "get-you-home" stopgap. Otherwise I would consign it to the far side of hell...
Alec

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Subject: Re: Waterless Coolant

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Hi Alec,

I agree that Bars leaks only masks problems, though it has been good with honeycomb radiators where this is nothing more than a slight weep.

However, I feel the more interesting constituent is what I assume is soluble (i.e. cutting) oil which turns the water white. This is otherwise known as suds and is lovely stuff for machining. Has anyone else got any comments about using suds in a cooling system?

Colin

Subject: Re: Waterless Coolant

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I have used Waterless Coolant in all my cars for years - including the Lagonda and it's fantastic. Never anymore radiator issues; no overheating, freezing, clogging up etc. Expensive but worth every penny and actually very cheap in the long run as you never need another radiator again - and I top up about 1/4 pint per year!
The argument that you do not know if the engine overheats is invalid. The temperature gauge still shows exactly how hot the coolant is. With water your gauge will not tell you how hot the engine is; 100 degrees makes the water boil so it doesn't cool the engine anymore while the engine itself can be much hotter. With Waterless Coolant you know the exact temperature of the engine - up to 160 degrees when even Waterless Coolant starts to boil. But that temperature is still quite safe for an engine. And meanwhile the Coolant kept the engine temperature down, unlike water.

Subject: Re: Waterless Coolant

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An alternative is a product called "Forlife" which I intended to use once my cars were back on the road, however I understand that Jonathan Oppenheimer had serious problems resulting from using that product in his V12. The Evans product seems to get good press all round...apart from the expense, and concern regarding emergency topping up in the event of, say, hose failure.
I wonder which ingredients justify the substantial price?!

Incidentally (and more on topic!), I have to say that I've been pretty impressed with Bars Leaks and similar products. Towing our caravan up to a Scottish holiday, our car, a 1964 Rover 2000 started misfiring and overheating. It transpired part of the head had corroded away, letting water directly into a combustion chamber. At low speeds, sucking water in; at high speeds, blowing it out. Bars leaks fixed it, despite the heat and compression pressure. Got us up to, around Scotland, and back to Surrey.
Also, my Lancia Y10 had a miniscule weep from a steel water pipe, the removal of which appeared impossible...so the (stupid) repair was to run the car without antifreeze. After a few years...and naturally, whilst on holiday at Sables d'Olonne, I noticed a big puddle under the car. A core plug had rusted through. A big hole; water poured out almost as fast as I poured it in. Went to the local £ (or is that €?!) shop & bought a tin of stuff. Poured it in with no hope of success...but it did actually seal it. I never did replace the core plug, so nothing but praise EXCEPT forever after, the car ran 10 degrees hotter. Not in itself a problem, other than leaving less margin for boiling over in traffic jams (the radiator fan had seized with rust as it had never previously had need to come on). So...it will tend to clog perhaps narrow passages...such as those in a radiator core.

Laurence

Subject: Re: Waterless Coolant

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DANGER WATERLESS COOLANT!

I have had the most dreadful time using Evans waterless coolant. My engine is on the third rebuild since using it. I have done some basic research on the web. The scientific report by No-Rosion have carried out comes to the following conclusions
SUMMARY OF FINDINGS

Conversion costs of $259 if you do it yourself, or over $400 if you pay a shop to do it.

97%+ removal of all previous coolant is mandatory in order to prevent corrosion.

Inhibitor deposition occurs on aluminum surfaces, which could cause issues in some radiators.

Engines run 115-140oF hotter (at the cylinder heads) with Evans products.

Stabilized coolant temps are increased by 31-48oF, versus straight water with No-Rosion.

Reprogramming ECU fan temp settings is mandatory to prevent the fan from running continuously.

Specific heat capacity of Evans waterless products ranges from 0.64 to 0.68, or about half that of water.

Engine octane requirement is increased by 5-7 numbers.

Computerized ignition must retard engine timing by 8-10o to prevent trace knock.

Engine horsepower is reduced by 4-5%.

Accelerated recession of non-hardened valve seats in older engines is possible, due to brinelling.

Viscosity is 3-4 times higher than what OEM water pumps are rated to accommodate.

Coolant flow rate through radiator tubes is reduced by 20-25% due to the higher viscosity.

Race tracks prohibit Evans products because they are flammable and slippery when spilled.


   
© Copyright 2012 Applied Chemical Specialties, Inc.

Evans is 10 times more viscous than water and will not pass through a honeycomb radiator or fine tubed radiator fast enough to cool your engine properly. the 20-25% reduction in flow rate is for modern wet core radiators and not prewar radiators. It will cause catastrophic damage to your pistons and bores with no warning. The temperature gauge will not rise significantly before smoke appears from under the dashboard and your engine will need a rebuild. This tends to occur on long motorway hills.
I am currently asking Evans to show me the research done in order to call their coolant 'Vintage', and so far they have not been able to produce any evidence at all that their product cools as well as water or is suitable for Vintage vehicles.
My repairs have cost over £8000 so far and I have requested compensation.
They are not taking my complaint seriously yet, and I feel that I have a duty to warn other waterless coolant users and potential users.

James Mann